Autor: Lykonius
lunes, 01 de mayo de 2006
Sección: Lenguas
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Lenguas emparentadas: vasco e íbero según el substrato catalán.

El catalán contiene una série de palabras de origen oscuro algunas veces, otras de orígen vasco. Se tratará de exponer un pequeño listado con palabras reunidas en una semana y compararlas con el vasco y el proto-vasco para así poder decidir si el antiguo íbero tenia alguna relación con el vasco.

EDITADO 1/5/2006 (nuevas relaciones, y rectificaciones incluidas) El catalán contiene una série de palabras de origen oscuro algunas veces, otras de "orígen vasco". Se tratará de exponer un pequeño listado con palabras reunidas en una semana y compararlas con el vasco y el proto-vasco para así poder decidir si el antiguo íbero tenia alguna relación con el vasco. Si hubieran problemas con el inglés, en esta web se da un servicio automático de traducción completa: http://www.freetranslation.com/free/web.htm (copiar la URL de esta página, y mandar traducir) RELATED LANGUAGES: BASQUE AND THE IBERIAN SUBSTRATE IN CATALAN. Catalan: Romance language that was developed in the NE corner of the Iberian Peninsula, with an Iberian substrate. This substrate is less evident after the second romanization that operated after the conquest of Charlemagne of the Catalan Pyrinees, leaving the frontier with the Islam south of Barcelona, and leaving as unique way for Catalans the north (Provence-Occitania) to commerce, evolve culturally, religiously, etc. This second romanization is similar to that of Pyrinees' Mozarabian that displayed Basque-mediated phonetical evolutions, but after Catalanitzation the language disappeared and only toponimy keeps the traces of such extint language. Basque: Isolated language spoken in the Basque Country, Navarra, and French nearer counties. Once it covered a more broader area: Aragonese Pyrinees, two counties in Catalonia (Ribagorça and Pallars), and Gascony. Spanish: Evolved in a little region near the Basque Country; it is supposed to have had a Basque substrate. But as Celtic substrate is also evident, one could think if it had a Celetiberian substrate. In whichever case, with the Castillan reconquista many colons were Basque, so that they acted as adstrate and modified so the Mozarabian language spoken in Castilla, even replacing it in some counties. The ancient Mozarabian was also very influenced by Arab (superstrate): some 1500 loanwords. CATALAN WORDS WITH A NON-LATIN BASE: WORD (English adapted pronunciation) > meaning. Possible origin. ESTALVI (estalbi) > savings / safe. From a Basque "estalpe" (protection); this Basque word has an origin in "estari" / "estali", meaning occult, covered, so that the derived "estalpe" means protection, but also stall in Basque. This last word also is parallel to Latin "stabulu", with the same meaning, and it is more logic to think in a Basque loanword (as substrate) than a Latin loanword... so that many Latin loanwords in Basque might be checked, and Latin might be worked hard as to find all non-Indoeuropean words that it might contain from a non-Indoeuropean Mediterranean set of languages... ESQUERRA (eskerra) > left. Origin in Basque "ezquer", with the same meaning. Also Basque has supplied Spanish: "izquierda". The Basque word for left and right ("eskuin"), derive from "esku", which means hand. If Catalan has keept the derived sense for left, it could be sure to think that Iberian (its substrate language), also had the same root for hand: *ESKI or *ESKU. ESQUERRÀ > left-handed. In Basque it is "ezkerti, ezker" CARABASSA > pumpkin. Unk. etim. CARAGOL > snail. Unk. etim., but related to Spanish "caracol", Provenzal "caragol", and French "es-cargot". Maybe both words have a composite *KARA- meaning "round" ? NEN/NIN > kid. Onom. Basque in his side has "nieña" and "nerabe", even has "ninika" (bud), nini (kid), nimi (kid), ne-ska (girl), neba (ne + ba = girl + relative, that is brother) ARPA/URPA > Animal or human hand with strong nails / hand. Latin origin in *harpare (to grasp strongly). But Basque has better chances to be the origin, as animal foot is "erpe" / "txerpa". SOCARRAR (sokarrar) > "su" Basque (fire) + "kar" Basque (flame). Basque "sugarastatu" has the same meaning that Catalan "socarrar". Moreover Basque has"zuzi" (fire-lighter: zu + ziri = fire + stick) and "zuziatu" (to bright) that seem to have a common steem *TSU- related to fire. SUTGE (sudge) > soot. Unkown origin, pre-Latin *SUDIA. To keep in mind also the English word... Basque in his side has "su" for fire, "sutalde" as home (fire + place), "sute" as fire, and "sutzar" as bonfire, so that there would be a derivated word from fire in Ibero-basque (*TSU) that would be *TSUT. XERRAC (sherrak) > saw. Linked to Spanish "charrasco". Basque has "zerra" / "xerra", that could be a Latin loanword from SERRA (but this word comes theoricaly from SECARE, which is to reap so that Latin SERRA has an strange origin...), but also could be Ibero-basque loanwords towards Latin: Latin "serra" has given in Spanish "sierra" an in Catalan "serra". Moreover Basque "zerren" means kork, "zarba" (fresh firewood), "zardai" (long stick), "zare - zaran" (basket), "zarta" (stick), "zartailu" (to whip, also with flexible sticks then), ziri "stick"... so that "*zerr" could have meant "wood" in proto-Basque, so a verb to saw wood would be then a derivation. BOC > goat BUGARRA > goat. Basque for goat is "aker", and for lamb is "bekereke", so maybe all them come from a common *BOKARR or *BEKARR. But also German and Celtic languages have similar words for goat. ISARD (izart) > wild ram. Pre-Latin origin, related to Basque "izar" (star), as this animal displays a kind of white star in his head. BEC > beak. Celtic origin: "beccus". Latin has "picus". But Basque has "moko"... with initial change b/m ? Maybe, since "bekoki" is forehead, and "bekozko" is eyebrow..., so that is could be possible that in proto-history, the Ibero-basque word would have been *BEKO. Even a more stricking coincidence Basque-Latin is urraca: "mika", which corresponds to Latin "pica"... In fact such cases demonstrate that it is necessary to perform an exhaustive research into Latin to check if all "Latin loanwords" in Basque are in fact loanwords or are Latin substrate words related to Basque: per example, Latin "rhoncare" (to snare) corresponds to Basque "karrankade", and "zurrinka" is (snore); and "karrankatu" means to make noise with the theets. SABATA > shoe. Insecure origin as variations are found in Romance languages, Turkish ("zabata"), and even Arab. By the Basque side, shoe is similar: "zapata", with also related words as "zapatu" (to step on), "zapasalto" (false step), "zapaka" (stepping on), and "zapaldu" (to step on repeteadly), so that it could have been an original Ibero-Basque *ZAPA for shoe or foot. XERRI (sherri) > sheep's defecations. Spanish "chirle", with a Basque origin: zirri/txirri; in Basque also there is "xerri / txerri" for pig and for dirtyness. Moreover Basque "zirin" means bird's defecations. It might have been a common Ibero-basque stem *TSERR meaning "dirtyness". GUIT/A (ghit) > agressive person or animal. Onom. GUITZA (ghidza) > nuisance; rel. with Spanish "coz" (animal kick). Unk. or. Basque for "coz" is "uztar". Also Basque has "kitzika" (to move violently), "kitzikan" (inciting, nuising), "kitzikatzaile" (provocative perons) that seem linked in some way. SOGA > thick cord. Same meaning and phonetics in Spanish. Possible Celtic origin... But Basque has: "suge" (snake), and "soka" (thick cord)... SOCA > It is related to Spanish "zoquete". Possible Gallic origin, *tsukka. But Basque has "zuhaitz" / "zuhamu" meaning tree; "zugan" meaning bucket made of wood (so that a loss of intervocalic G could be seen here). So that a possible Ibero-basque root for tree would be *TSUKA (having an stem *TSURR, as in Basque "zur" means wood), allowing then a loanword towards Gallic. It is necessary to question us which peoples inhabited Western Europe before the arrival of the Indoeuropeans, which substituted the forerunners of the megalithic civilization. Maybe they spoke Bascoid languages ? Let's check this short list of Irish Gaelic words without an IE ethimology: carrac : rock - Basque "harri", from Proto-Basque "*karri" ? adarc : branch - Basque "adar" ainder : woman - Basque "andere" eo (from *esok) : salmon - Basque "izokin" (water's meat) SURRA > tanning. pre-Latin; Spanish has "zurra" XURRIAC > tanning stick for animals. Sp. "zurriago", Basque "zurriaga". From a possible Latin *excorrigiata... but as has been seen, Basque "zur" means "wood" already... XERRAR (sherrar) > to speak lofly. Linked to Aragonese "charrar", Spanish "charlar", Italian "ciarlare". From an obscure *TSHERR. Basque "txor-txor" has a similar meaning and corresponds to Spanish "cháchara". So "txor-txor" in Basque would mean chatting much, and the "txor" alone would mean "to chat". Then also in Basque there is "zerra" (gossip) and "erran" means to speak... So a possible Ibero-basque steem for "to speak" could be: *SHERR. TXERRIC (sherrik) > big noise. Onom. Corresponds to Spanish "chirriar". XEREC > lie XERRAMECA > gossip XERRADISSA > continuous chat GORRA > Catalan cap (barretina) pronounced in certain areas, from a Basque origin as the barret is of red colour and "gorri" in Basque means precisely red. CARRASCA > evergreen oak, also similar in Spanish and in Basque ("garraska", and "gardaska" for a kind of dwarf evergreen oak), from a common *karr-aska. GARRIGA > evergreen oak; from a pre-Latin *garrika or *karr-ika. Maybe the evergreen oak has an stem *KARR- (flame/fire) as this tree has the propierty to resist fires. XANCA (shanka) > extended foots / long leg. Related to Spanish "zancos". Derived from tardive Latin "zanga", a kind of boot. XANCLETA (shankleta) > a kind of shoe ANCA > haunch / buttock. From germanic "hanka". In whichever case Basque has "txanka", "anka" and "zango" which all mean leg. "txanket" / "zango-motz" means lame. It would be then more reasonable that there was a common Ibero-basque word for leg: *TSANKA, which would have acted as substrate loanword in Latin and Germanic (Proto-Germanic has around a 25% of unknown origin words, not related to IE, and the area were Proto-Germanic was developed is a megalithic area...). SARRÓ > shepherd's bag; Basque origin, which has provided also Spanish "zorro" and "zurrón". Also the Basque word means paunch, which would be the original sense of the word. SÀRRIA > big basket. Origin in an Iberian *SAREA. Basque "sare" is net / trap. XOT (shot) > lamb. onom XAI (shay) > lamb. Unk. origin. Basque has "axo" (little ram), and "axuri" (lamb)... so that a possible *ATSHOLI could be a base for them. QUEIXA (kesha) > Exclamation of pain / reclamation. Related to Spanish "queja". Possible Latin origin "quassicare" (to break)... But again Basque has more points to be the real origin: "kexa" (same meanings), "kexeri" (pain), and "kexu" (procupation). Then a problable I-B (Ibero-basque) *KESHA would have meant "pain". ETZIBAR (edzib-ar) > to throw aggressively / to accuse agressively / to swallow. Unk. origin. Basque has "egotzi" meaning "to throw", so that a loss of intervocalic -G- could be part of the Catalan evolution. ESQUENA (eskena) > back. Germanic origin: "skina" (meaning thig bone...). But Basque has with the same meaning "bizkar", so maybe Basque and Iberian substrate had an steem as *BESKE- ORSA > A kind of ancorage. Spanish "orsa". Unsure origin, maybe from Latin "urcea" (jug)... But again Basque has good proofs as to be the origin: the same meaning has "aurtza". A common I-B *AURTSA can be postulated ? ESCATA > scale / disseccated blood in the skin. Obscure origin, but present in Italian and Sardinian. But again Basque has a correspondence very similar with the same meaning: "ezkata". But this word could have an steem meaning "toe": "hatz" / "atzamar" (toe), seen also inside of "haztam" (sense of touch), "haztakatu" (to frisk), "azkura"/"hazkura" (itch), "hazka" (scraping), "haznahi" (itch), "azku" (habitity), "azazkal" (toe + ending > nail), "atzaparra" (claw), "hazteri" (itch), "ezkabia" (ringworm, skin parasit). The very interesting fact also, is that Latin has "scabo" (I scrap), "scaber" (asperous feel), and "scabies" (itch, leprosy), and it is evident that the Basque word "hazka" is not a loanword from Latin but the base for such Latin words ! So these words might come from the substrate of Latin. GARÇA (garsa) > a kind of bird. Uncertain origin; Latin is "ardea". Basque has "koartza"... so that the Basque word seems to be much more conservative than that in Catalan and that in Latin... how Basque could have influenced Latin ...? XOP (shop) > very wet. onom. Basque has "txipa egin" (to be wet)... XÀFEC (shaphek) > rain (strong). onomat. Related to Spanish "chapotear" and "chaparrón". Basque has "zaparrada" with the same meaning... XUMAR (shumar) > to expel liquids / to drink directly / to suckle. Obscure origin. Basque "zuhar" means "to bleed", with a possible elimination of intervocalic M. XORRADA (shorrada) > falling water. related to Sp. "chorro". Basque has "txorro" with the same meaning, "zurrutan" (to fall water discontinuosly) and even has "xorta" (drop); and maybe "zarraka" / "zerrada" is a related word with an steem for "water" as it means "strong rain". These Basque words would derivate from "zara-zara", with the same meaning, possibly coming from a iteration of "zara" (rain) denotating the iteration its potency. XARRUP (sharrup) > little deglution of liquids. Onom., but linked with Spanish "sorbo". Also Basque has related "onomatopoeias": "xurrupa" / "zurrupa" / "hurrupa" all three meaning "to slurp", and have a steem in "zurrut" (sip). Basque could have related words attached to a sense for "water": "xuko" (dry), "xurgatu" (to sucke), "zurruka" (river), "xurru" (mortar), "zurda" (frost), "sura" (object where the water leaks), "zurrupita" (strong rain), etc. In Ibero-basque it might be an *TSO meaning "water", with variations: *TSOP' (wet ? rain ?) and *TSORR (drop ? rain ?). The most common actual Basque word for "water" is "ur" an derivates; as has been seen, Basque seems that has lost some intial TS-... but when this TS or S was keept inside of a word (as in composed words or verbs) it can be seen: "isuri" (liquid fluxe), "isuri" (derramar) QUER (ker) > rock. Related to Basque "harri" (from "karri"). ESQUERDA > fragment of a hard object (usualy refered to rocks). Basque has "koskor" (fragment), "harrikoskor / harkaskor" (rock's fragment), GARJOLA > kind of bag made with an animal stomach / paunch / cavity / prision. Basque has "kaiola" (jail)... BARJOLA > bag made of leather / basket / pocket / paunch BARRIOLA > net / animal stomach / big paunch. Unsure origin. Basque "barru" means interior side, gut... which is linked to "barriga" in Spanish. BARRAL/BARRIL > recipe for liquids made of wood, leather, etc. Origin pre-Latin in *BARR- Basque has "barruko" which means "interior", "mardo" means soft (it is usual the change B- > m- in Basque, as is intervocalic RR to rd), "marda" is paunch, "mardoera" means "thickness", and "mardotu" is to fatten. So that there might have been a common Ibero-basque stem wich would mean stomach or area of stomach: *BARRI. MORRO > sout / lips. Basque *murru (actual mutur-mustur), linked to Sp. "morro" (for persons and animals). In vulgar Spanish "morrear" means to kiss. MURRI > someone with wrong intentions. Has a relation with "morro". Basque uses "amurri" for those sheeps with mental illness, and "amurru" for rabies. In Basque "murri" means perverse, and "murrikari" means joker. BARROER > rude person. Unk. origin. MURMURI > from latin "murmureum", but Basque has with the same meaning "murmur" and "marmar". So as "murru" means "sout", it could have evolved from there "mar-mar", which means murmur, "marru" (animal voice), "marrakari" means cryer, "marraka" is a voice made by animals, "marrakaldi" means to scream, criying, animal voice, and even "murraskatu" is to chew, that there is a common stem for lips or mouth in Ibero-basque: *BORR SOT > hole. Pre-roman origin: *SOTTU (hole, depression) with derivations in Gascon, Alpine dialects, and Basque: "soto" means cellar and hole. SOTA > in Menorca island means diving, falling. SOTRAC > collission. Onom. So Ibero-basque *SOTO meant hole. But it is a coincidence that Basque has for hole "zulo" ? As this word keeps intervocalic -L- when the norm in Basque is to change -l- for -r-, which cause allowed its conservation ? Maybe the answer is that this word comes from a Proto-Basque *ZULLO as state some Bascologists, but it is interesting that Iberian has "seltar" which seems to mean tomb. If we combine *SOTO, *ZULLO and SELTAR we could merge them in an Ibero-Basque *TSELTO or *TSOLTO, so that Basque would have evolved towards *tsolto > *dzuldo > zul·lo > zulo, where Catalan would have derived *tselto > *sewt > sot. Even more, Basque has derived interesting words related to graveyards: "zulogile" is a grave-digger... BESSONS > twins. Unknown origin, but it is said that it could be linked to Latin "bissone" (double), or to Basque "biki" (bessó), which has correspondences in "biko" (pair) and "bikun" (double). So here again it comes te question: Latin or Basque was before ? Surely Basque, since "bi" is two, where in Latin it was "duos", and Basque is in no way a "Satem" language (bikun versus bissone)... Even more, it could be reconstructed Catalan "bessó" from an Iberian *BISOIN, word that would unite "bi" (two) and "soin" / "sein" (kid in Basque, with related "seme" as "son", which comes from "*sen-be"); if this theory would be confirmed, we would have a clear Iberian numeral and a clear word for son... BARRACA > hut. pre-Roman origin from *BARRA (hut made of bars). Basque has the same meaning and word: "barraka" BARRA > long and strong piece. pre-Roman origin. Basque also has the same meaning and phonetics. MARRO > kind of game linked to the "three-in-line" / conflict. In Basque there is "marroka" and "marro" with similar meanings. MARRAR > to desviate from a line. Origin unkown. Basque has "marratu" (to line), and "marra" for line, trace. So it seems that there would have been a word for line/bar in Ibero-basque: *BARR. This could have a more ancient etimology in the Basque word for branch: "abar", which developed "branches": "aberria". Even with such etimology, it could be understood the initial meaning of ancient penis in Basque: "barroa" (in fact also actual Catalan keeps the parallelism branche - penis: "verga"). BARALLA (baraya) > verbal or phisical fight. Related to Spanish "barullo". Uncertain origin, but maybe related to Germanic "baratta" (fight), and a possible derivation from *barattula. Basque in whichever case has with the same meaning "baraila", so that it might be a derivated word from *BARR, meaning as "fight with bars", or "fight with branches". The Latin "vara" has an IE etymology ? or could have an "obscure" origin ? BARREJAR > to mix / to put to flight animals, usually with an stick (cows, sheeps, etc.). Unclear origin, maybe from Latin "verrere". In whichever case Basque "barreiu" means to spread out, "barreiatu" is dissemination, and "barreiakor" is dispersive... so that a common origin for the Basque and Catalan words would be a root *BARR (branch) as a base to formate verbs meaning to mix/disperse as when with an stick we could scatter rocks in the soil or ashes in fires. BARDISSA > natural barage in a field made from bushes or branches. BARDA > barage in a field. Pre-Roman *barra. Basque "abar" means branch. SORNA > slowlyness, laziness. Unk. or. XORRA (shorra) > sleepiness XURRA (shurra) > heat / laziness / donkey XIRRA (shirra) > she-donkey There would have been in Iberian *SHORR meaning "sleepiness, laziness". Even more, we have a Basque "zoramarro" with the same meaning, and less related there is Basque "sor" (deaf / insensitive). CARCASSA > carcass, skeleton. Correspondences in Italian and French. Unk or. In Basque "karkail" means ugly / deformed person... CARCÀ > In Tarragona's area it means hooked dirtyness. GARRA > Animal hand, claw. Celtic origin... but basque has "garro" (tentacle), "karrakatu" (to gnaw), "karramarro" (crab), "karramixka" (scratch), so that it could have been a common Ibero-basque *KARRA which would mean "hand" (hand in actual Basque is "esku"). GARREPA > stealer / avaricious. From pre-Roman radical "garr-" (as to take with the hand). ESGARRAPAR > to hurt with the nails / to scratch. ARRANCAR > to unroot (also figuretively) / to pull up violently / to start to move. Origin unkown. Also Spanish has this verb with the same meaning. Basque in his side has "arrankatu" with the same meaning. Maybe it is related to "arra" (palm), "arrahartu" (to take again), "arraildu" (scratched), "arrankola" (hook made of iron), and "arrano" (eagle). All these terms seem to contain derivations from "arra", and that such "arra" comes in fact from "garra" / "karra", with K-/G- lost, so that from an ancient word for hand it would have evolved different words meaning "to take" or for objects charcterized by its propierties to take things. ARROSSEGAR > to drag / to drag oneself / to hand catching the ground. Unsure origin. Basque has an exact correspondence: "arrastatu", and has developed meanings as "arrastakari" (reptile), "arrastagaile" (brake), "erratzo" (broom)... so that maybe a common Ibero-basque word meaning to drag would have been *ARRATZA, word that also again would be a derivared word from *KARRA/*GARRA/*ARRA (hand). ARRONSAR > to hunch up / to put things nearer / to move with crowbars. Related to Spanish "ronzar". Arab loanword: "razm" (grimace). Basque has a very similar word to desigante approximation: "hurreratu" / "hurrandu", so that a common base *ARRUNTHO could have been possible. ARRUFAR > to wrinckle / to frown. Unknown origin. RATXA (rratsha) > sudden wind / sudden illumination / succession of acts. Unknown origin, but linked to Spanish "racha". Maybe also dialectal "retxegar" (to vomitate) is linked to this word as meaning sudden expulsion; also to keep in mind that Basque has "arraiza" which means south-west wind, that would keep the original steem inside. RETXA/REIXA (rresha) > grille. No sure origin, but linked to Spanish "reja". RATLLA (RALLA) (rraya) > line / scratch / limit. Linked with REIXA, also of obscure origin. Spanish "raya". Basque has "arraia" for the first meaning, but offers the doubt to be a loanword from Spanish to Basque or is a common Ibero-Basque word. Moreover Basque has "arradiz" meaning signal, track. So that maybe all these words come from a common Ibero-basque *ARRASH (track), loosing the Romance languages initial A- confusing it as member of the article (l'arreixa > la reixa). GAVARRA > barge. Rel. to Basque "gaparra", with a common origin in *GAB- (cutting). CAPARRA > barge. Basque origin: "kapar". "kapar" / "kabarra" / "gapar" means blackberry bush, an both have the propiety to hook; otherwise "kabarra" in Basque means dry, and might be related this term to this plant... Also another possible origin would be the fact that such plant has strong spines that can hook, and in some way it could be related to Basque "karra" - Iberian "garra", after loosing intervocalic -B-... POTI-POTI. > blend of dirty things (Ripollés: "poti" for dirtyness). Linked to Sp. "potar", to vomitate. Onomatopoeia. Basque has "bota" to say "to throw", and from here has derived vomit with "botaka". It would lead us to a Ibero-basque steem *POTA for residues or dirtyness. POTINER > person that handles dirtyness. POTINERIA > a dirty thing. MARRÀ > pork / dirty person / male sheep. Iberian origin: * MARR- with correspondences in Basque and Occitan. MÀRREC > lamb. COSQUELLES (koskeyes) > tickling. Has a radical K-S-K in all dialectal variations: "cosconelles", "cosquilles", and corresponds to the Spanish "cosquillas". Basque has "kilima", "kili-kili" for tickling, "kilikor" means excitable, and "kilikatu" is produce tickling. TOS > back of the neck, also in animals. From a Pre-Latin *TAUCIA with relatives in Spanish (tozal, tozudo) TOSSA, TOSSAL > hill. Derivation from "tos". XIRIPA (shiripa) > casuality. Spanish origin: "chiripa"... but Basque has with the same meaning "xiripa", and to get "x" from Spanish "ch-tx"... Could be linked "xiripa" with Basque "zori" (luck / destiny) ? PAPARRA > tick. Basque "papa" means insect, so "paparra" would mean a big one. PAPA > insect / worm. Basque for snail is "marraskilo" coming from an older "barraskilo", so that it could be got a more ancient stem *PA- for insects. COC > back of the neck. Unsure origin. In whichever case Basque has "kokospe" for the double chin, and "kokor" for throat... It would be problable that there was in Ibero-basque *KOK for head or neck; even in vulgar Spanish "coco" means head, and moreover Basque has possible related words linked to the head/mind: "gogo" (mind), "gogamen" (inteligence), "gogai" (thought), "gogaldu" (to think), "gogoratu" (to remember), and even more descriptive: "gogor" (hard), and "kokonkatu" (to inclinate), "kukur" (crest), kukula (superior part of a tree) and "be-koki" (forehead). CUCAVELA > to knock down with the head in the soil (Mall.) COGOT > back of the neck. Basque origin: "kokote". Also there is "kokots" for chin; but latin had "CUCUTIU" CATXUTXA (katshutsha) > beret, From Basque "katxutx", that gives Sp. "cachucha" COTAR > to knock the animals with their heads. Unsure or., root in *COT (back of the neck) CATX (katsh) > to inclinate (specially the head); linked to Spanish "gacho" and "agachar". CATXO (katsho) > head (vulgar). CATXAR (katshar) > to win a conversation / to mock on someone ACATXAR (akatshar) > to inclinate (usually refered to the head) / to recline / to concordate in something. Unclear etim. Maybe it existed in Ibero-basque *KOTS for head or neck. Otherwise the actual "canonical" word for head in Basque is "buru". CLASCA/CLOSCA > hard bark or leather in animals and fruits / skull. From an onomatopoeia *KLOSK-. But Basque has "koskol" for animal leather, and "kusku" is the eggshell.... CASC > shell. Origin in a pre-Latin *KASK. Basque "kaska/o" has the same meaning and also means "head", "skull", and derivates "kaskodun" (smart), "kaskomurritz" (shaved person), "koskoil" (egg), and "be-kozko" (eyebrow). PAP > food (vulgar). Theorically comes from Latin "pappa" with the same meaing, but there is Basque "papa" with also the same meaning. But Basque has moreover "papar" (double chin), which would indicate from where the word originated, being so more ancient that that in Latin. Even Basque has "papar" (breast), "paparda" (double chin), "paparo" (buch), "papo" (torax) PAP > double chin. Origin in Spanish and Catalan from vulgar Latin PAPPARE (to eat)... but Basque has "papo" for chest, breast, double chin; also has "papar" for double chin; and even "lepape" for double chin. MEC > dumb person. Curiously Basque has "makito" (dumb) and "meko" (weak person) MECA > girl ME/NA > she-dog to hunt (Mall) MENO > calf (Pla Urgell) ME/NS > lamb. Onom. With the same meaning: "BE", also an onomatopoeia. But curiously it keeps the Basque law B > M.... MA/MÈ > water (infantil). Surely linked to "amarar", which means to make a thing very wet. Basque has infantile "mama" for water. Interesting enough is that in Mallorca kids pronounce "BÈ" for water. But curiously it keeps the Basque law B > M.... Also for example ancient Catalans got a Germanic loanword ("worm") and catalan has developed it to "morm" and "borm". GOLA > theorically has a Latin origin (gula) but Basque has "gola" for the double chin in pigs and "golo" for the double chin in fishes, so that even a Romance origin for the Basque word is dubious, moreover when usual evolution would be towards "gura" as was done with the Latin/Catholic loanword "gula > gura" for gluttony. GARGAMELLA > a part of the throat. Onomatop. GARGALL (gargay) > onomat. But Basque "karkaxa" means exactly the same, and means the throat also, where "korkox" is hump, and "gorgoil" is Adam's apple. CORCOLL (korkoy) > its meaning is junction between head and neck, of unknown ethimology. HÒSTIA (ostia) > slap (vulgar). Identical meaning and pronounce in Spanish and Basque. Basque has: "oste" (back, animal back), "ostiko" (kick, animal kick), "ostikarazi" (to step on), so that a Ibero-basque origin might have the Catalan "hòstia". Even in Basque "hosta-" means foliage, and "hostar" is a fresh branch, so that a "ostia" could have had an original sense as "to stick". -TSHO > diminutive. As in Basque "ibai-txo" (little river) - Catalan "forn-atxo" "little oven" -ARRA/O > aumentative. As Catalan "serpentarra" (big snake) is used as in the Basque -tzar "sugetzarra" (big snake). Iterations, which mean quantity in Basque "urdin-urdin" (intense blue), similar happens in Sardinian "virdi-virdi" (intense green); but Catalan also has iterations but to express modality: "barrija-barreja" (blend), "poti-poti" (dirtyness), "gara-gara" (adulation). Vigesimal system to count in Basque and in Catalan, but in Catalan almost extingished. ---------- OTHER CATALAN WORDS NO-LATIN BASED: TARRÓ > A kind of plant. Unk. ethim. Basque has "darte" meaning bush. BASSA > pool. Related to Sp. and Portuguese "balsa", which are pre-Indoeuropean; Basque "baltsa" and "basa" mean mud. SARNA > itch. As its Spanish correlative, has not Latin origin. SARGANTANA > a kind of lizard. EIXORC (eshork) > esterile. Unk. or. XORAR (shorar) > to steal. Basque has "xorkatu" and Spanish "chorrar" PATAC - patacada > knock; onomat. XEIXA (shesha) > a kind of wheat. Unk. or. ORNI - lorni > A person that tries to appear that does not hear or understand. or. desc EIXERIT (esherit) > lively. Unk. or. GOJA > fairy. Related to French "gouge" (fatty woman) XIC (shik) > little / kid. Related to Sp. "chico", Basque, Occitan dialects and Italian dialects, which come from an obscure *TSHIK RAI > "no problem", "OK". Used in Languedoc also. AVARCA > rustical shoe. Pre-Latin, with correspondence in Basque (abarka), Spanish, Portuguese and Occitan. BOTA > boot. Unk. origin. BORDA > hut. Basque origin: "borda" SIBOC/SABOC > kind of bird / stupid person BITXAC (bitshak) > kind of bird / principal root. Onom. XITXARRA (shitsharra) > cicala / type of bird. Basque has "txitxar" SARGA > kind of plant. from Basque "zarika", comming from Celtic salico, but Latin "salice" gives in catalan "salze"... TARTALL (tartay) > sttutering. Onom. But Basque has "tartailo" and "totel" meaning the same... TOPAR > to knock with the head. Onomat. XOC (shok) > to knock. Onom. Sp. "choque" GUARÀ > a kind of donkey. TARRABASTALL > strong noise. Obscure origin... but Basque has "tarrapata" BOSTA > animal defecation (cow, bull, etc.) SAMARRO > astute SAMARRA > a kind of wear, Or. Basque "zamar" / "txamarra". MARGALL > Plant (Lolium Perenne). From a pre-IE *margalio ARAGALL > flowing of water in the soil produced by rains. Pre-Latin *ARAG-/*ARG- NONA - NYONYA > sleepeness. Onomat. BURLA > jerk. Unk. or., with correspondences in Spanish and Basque. CACA > shit (vulgar). Onom. Also Basque uses for shit "kaka", as does Italian with "caca" LLESCA (yeska) > slicve. pre-Latin *LISKA LLENCA (yenka) > strip Unk. or. TIRRIA > animadversion. Onom. But Basque has "tarritadura" and "tarritamendi" for irritation, "tirria" is will... MINYÓ > kid. Unsure origin. PURRIA > ordinary people. Obscure origin. Related to Spanish "birria", and having a common origin in *PURR- (repugnancy) RUC > donkey. Onom. PARRA > vine. From a pre-Latin word BAF > vapour / breath Onom. But this onomatopoeia is related to Spanish "vaho", Greek "vapor" and Basque "pafa"... TARTER/A > stony area. Unk. or. With the same meaning, in Basque: "arrarte". MATUSSER > clumsy. BREGA > fight. From Germanic "brekan" (to break). But Basque has "borroka" meaning fight also... BREGAR / BARGAR > to beat reed. BIGOTI > moustach. Sp. origin (bigote). But Basque has "bibote" and "bipunttako". Moreover "bidar" / "bizar" is beard. BITLLA (bidya) > . From Germanic *bikkul (die) which goes to French "bille". Spanish has "bolo"... and Basque "birla"... MATA (var MATOLL, MATISSAR) > bush. Basque has "malda" / "malta". ESCARRANSIT > little / avaricious. Unk. or. SAGÍ > animal fat. Basque has "sain" (fishe's fat) XARAGALL (sharagay) > track left by rainwater in bare soil. From pre-Roman arag- or arg-. Related ARAGALL, ARGALL XOLLAR (shoyar) > to shear. GARRÍ / GORRÍ > pig. onom. Basque has "ordots", "urdai", "iz-urde" that could have lost an initial G- ?... GODALL > little pig / lamb ARTIGA > cleaned area to cultivate CIMORRA > nasal illness in horses PITARRA > tick MODORRA > ovine illness. Related to Sp. "modorro", of uncertain origin, but Basque has "modorro" as dumb animal. ESQUIFIT - ESCAFIT > under-sized PAPU > phantom (infantile). Basque "papao", phantom. BURILLA > cigarette end. Spanish "colilla" (as "little tail"). Maybe related to BURÍ (burin), a kind of piece with a prominency to slash wood. Basque for head is "buru"... so that "burilla" would mean "little head of the cigarette" ? PRE-ROMAN TOPONIMY IN CATALONIA: Tivissa, Canigó, Bàscara, Sora, Lladurs, Odena, Gerri, Ogassa, Berrús, Soresa/Súria, Ascó, Garrotxa, etc. IVARS > Basque "ibar" for valley. GURRI (river) > from Basque "gorri" (red) SANAÜJA (ancient Sa Naüja) > Basque "naba-oia" (valley's fold) ONDARA (river) > Basque "ondar", sand SEGARRA > From Basque "sagar", apple tree. TOSSA de Mar > From a medieval Torsa, which comes from the classical period as "Turissa", which is related with the Basque "iturri", well BESÓS (river) > with a "Basque" steem "bai", river. LLENA (yena) < tile or firestone. From a pre-Latin *lena. ILIBERRI (actual Elna) > Basque "iri" (city) and Basque "berri" (new): New City. It would point to a *BERRI as "new" in Ibero-basque. CAUCOLIBERIS (actual Cotlliure) > Horbour of the New City, with Basque "kai / kuk" for harbour. IBER - IBERIANS (actual Ebre river) > Corresponds to Basque "ibai" (river) and with "ibar" (valley). ILURBEDA (actual Pyrinees) > formed with Basque "elur" (snow) ? "beda" would mean range, as another Iberian range was the "Orospeda", around the territory of the Oritani tribe. Even actual Catalan "Pirineus" contains "snow". IF CATALAN SUBSTRATE WORDS AND TOPONONIMY (IBERIAN) ARE SO CLEARLY RELATED TO BASQUE WORDS, IT MIGHT BE POSSIBLE TO READ IBERIAN INSCRIPTIONS WITH SOME DEGREE OF ACCURACY. BUT BEING DIFFERENT LANGUAGES IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE TO READ 100% (NOBODY COULD READ A ROMANIAN PHRASE WITH ONLY A DICTIONARY OF FRENCH, EVEN BEING BOTH ROMANCE LANGUAGES). In the other hand many lingusits are taxative to say that there is not relation Basque-Iberian as they aren't capable to translate Iberian inscriptions with Basque... Maybe such linguists need an Iberian dictionary...? Why they have found only one IE loanword from the 1500 recorded Iberian words ? Only a loanword when Iberians had Celts in the north, in the west, and Greeks in the sea ? But it is true that there are many "miracle-tranlators" that chop Iberian words and link them to the most nearer Basque sound doing stupid phrases as "The mother likes the grass when the wind is fresh", but there are also serious translators, with much or lees effectiveness, but they can translate with the aid of Basque. An exemple: http://es.geocities.com/jaquemot/pag-principal.html -------- COMMON BASQUE - IBERIAN FEATURES: No F sound. No intial R- (maybe by the overwelming presence of final -R in Iberian words: ar, ur, or, etc. to don't confusse words) No intial P-, T-, K- is a common feature, maybe also related to -R endings which would sonorize such consonants as can be seen in interior groups in Basque (arti > ardi). Basque "ertsi" (closed area) - Iberian "ars" (citadel) Basque "egin" - Iberian "ekien" (to do) "ibeni" - "ebanen" (to erect) "eta" - "-te" (and) "zaldi" - "saldu" (horse) "iri" - "ili" (city) SALIR (Iberian) > a few of the known meanings in Iberian, found in coins. It is linked to Basque "zalir", which means silver. But also it could be linked with Basque "sari": payment, price, and keept in "lansari" (work + payment = salary). "erio" (death) - "erio" (death, possible meaning) "*ebazi" (to win, actual irabazi from *e-ro-baz-i) - "e-bas-iren" (similar possible meaning) "eutsi" (to give) - "iunstir" (possible similar meaning) "beltz" from "*belts" (black) - "beles" (possible coincidence) "ni" (I) - "mi" (in funerary inscriptions). Basque and Iberian are aglutinative languages -en (genitive) - -en (genitivo possesive) -k (for plurals) - -k (for plurals) -te (ablative agent) - -tik (ablative no agent) -TAR (procedence) > bilbo-tar (from Bilbao city), saitabei-tar (from the city of Saitabe, Roman Saetabis) -AR (procedence) > damasko-ar / bilbili-ars Attested phonetic changes in Basque, Iberian, Catalan and Spanish: A/E (Basque berri - barri) E/O (Catalan rotundo > redó, Dertosa > Tortosa, fonoll-fenoll) I/U (Basque zulo = zilo) O/U (gorri - gurri, Gurriaran - Gorriaran, Catalan morir - murir) AU > o (Basque aurtza - Catalan orsa) R- > arr- (RATONE > arratoi in Basque) // vibrant R in Catalan (rratolí) N- > m- (nerabe / mirabe) B- > m- / 0 (bacillum / Basque "makila" - a-berri / herri -- merendare > Catalan "berenar") G- > h- P- > b- (Latin pace > Basque bake) K- > g- (Basque kapar - gapar) K- > ts- > z- ?? (kapar = zapar). Z- > s- or z- (as between "th" and "sz") Z- > 0 (Basque zapo > apo) TS- > dz > z (as between th and sz) > inpr. /// tsh > sh -D- > -b- (Basque abar = adar) -RR- > -rd- -GI- > i (Latin magister > Basque maizter) LINKS WORTH TO VISIT: http://lenguas-iberas.host.sk http://www.webpersonal.net/jrr/index.htm http://dcvb.iecat.net/ http://www1.euskadi.net/hizt_3000/

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  1. #1 elpater 23 de abr. 2006

    Muchas gracias, Sr. Hartza. Hace ya tiempo escribí esto: "Un ejemplo reciente que roza lo patético de estos comportamientos de ciencia patológica con motivaciones políticas nos remite, inevitablemente, al País Vasco. Los protagonistas son ahora el filósofo Fernando Savater por la parte racional, y Alfonso Martínez Lizarduikoa, profesor de Filosofía de la Ciencia en la Universidad del País Vasco, por la otra. No conocemos el texto original, el libro de Alfonso Martínez que da lugar a la polémica; un libro en euskera titulado Euskal Zibilizazioa al cual intelectuales vascos como Fernando Savater, Mikel Azurmendi o Jon Juaristi han dedicado duras críticas. De todas formas, algunos otros escritos del autor nos permiten entrever por dónde van sus teorías arqueológicas. Basándose, según propias palabras, en "las investigaciones, internacionalmente reconocidas, de eminentes intelectuales como Renfrew y Gimbutas (en arqueología), Cavalli-Sforza y Bertrand Petit (en genética), o Ruhlen y Greenberg (en paleolingüística)“, se concluye, en palabras de Mikel Azurmendi que el autor da por buenas, que "somos una comunidad que resiste aquí desde hace 30.000 años“, que "somos el único pueblo indígena de Europa“, que "somos los únicos descendientes directos del cromagnon“ y que "los valores que nos han hecho durar sin plegarnos a los de fuera, son el territorio, la lengua, el panteísmo, el feminismo matriarcal y el trabajo en común“ (Martínez, A. 1998). "De forma que está científicamente probado que el pueblo vasco lleva, por lo menos, 18.000 años (dieciocho mil años) viviendo ininterrumpidamente en el territorio de Euskal Herria. Y ese pueblo vasco ha protagonizado muchas veces la resistencia colectiva a la dominación extranjera que es el caldo de cultivo para el fenómeno nacionalista, para la manifestación de la voluntad de construirse como nación" (Martínez, s.f.b). El pueblo vasco es el único que, en toda Europa, resistió a la indoeuropeización alientante, permaneciendo intacto como indígena. Y "los pueblos indígenas como el vasco poseen una sabiduría milenaria relacionada con el medio natural, su aprovechamiento y gestión equilibrada, poseen además una historia (prehistoria) de la que proceden sus artes para la vida y el trabajo, así como su personalidad colectiva. Tienen muchos de ellos una fuerte conciencia matriarcal, colectivista e igualitaria que les convierten en la avanzadilla del socialismo real“. El resto de Europa bien puede estar representada por "esa masa civil española y francesa, alienada por una indoeuropeización de milenios, a la que queremos hacer partícipe de la sabiduría de un pueblo al que tienen el privilegio de observar muy de cerca: Euskal Herria, el último pueblo indígena de la Europa Antigua“ (Martínez, A. 1999). Y no es para menos: del cromagnon al socialismo real en un plumazo, y todo por haber sabido rechazar el imperialismo indoeuropeo y mantenerse como pastores de mandacarállidos, vulgo ovicápridos. Pues manda carallo. Al libro de Martínez Lizarduikoa dedicó uno de sus artículos el filósofo Fernando Savater, quien, entre otras cosas, decía: "Supongo que es inevitable que sandeces como las del libro de marras se publiquen y difundan. Lo único deseable sería que no estuvieran refrendadas por autoridades educativas ni se incluyeran en los planes de estudio del bachillerato, como parece que ha sido el caso de La civilización vasca. Pero el único remedio eficaz contra las fabulaciones de la ignorancia atrevida estimulada por el fanatismo es desarrollar la capacidad de dudar, de comprobar, de contrastar noticias y de fomentar un pensamiento mínimamente objetivo de la realidad. La educación de nuevo, ya ven" (Savater, F., 1998). La respuesta virulenta de Martínez no se hizo esperar. Al contraataque, respondía que "el antivasquismo de estos chicos del Foro de Ermua está alcanzando ya la categoría de patología“, y encontraba finalmente que el motivo de los ataques de Savater "no es más que el que se reivindique a Euskal Herria, con un montón de datos científicos incluídos, como el último territorio indígena de la Europa Antigua que aún sobrevive, a pesar del tremendo proceso de minorización y genocidio que ha sufrido (y sigue sufriendo) desde hace más de dos milenios“. ¿Cuál es el trasfondo de la discusión arqueológica? El autor lo tiene claro: "Si galicia reinvindica su pasado celta, Cataluña su cultura romance, Andalucía su más que visible sustrato musulmán, las Islas Canarias su identidad guanche, Castilla su tradición libertaria comunera y, al fin, los vasco irredentos sus señas de identidad preindoeuropeas, ¿qué queda de España? Queda sólo Madrid" (Martínez, A. s.f.). Y el cromagnon, sin enterarse. Me parece que es más que suficiente para mostrar la utilización patológica de la arqueología y la prehistoria en el debate (y ojalá fuese sólo debate) político del presente." -------------------------- De ahí mi interés por saber cómo había sido recibido el libro en ambientes científicos vascos. De nuevo, muchas gracias. PS: Añado las referencias bibliográficas, aunque ya no están en la red (o no las encuentro): MARTÍNEZ, A. s.f. Savater y los indígenas [en línea]. <> [Consulta: 6 de mayo de 2001]. MARTÍNEZ, A. s.f.b. Euskal Herria, el pueblo-nación más antiguo de Europa, es una supervivencia [en línea]. <> [Consulta: 6 de mayo de 2001]. MARTÍNEZ, A. 1998. Euskal Zibilizazioa y El País. Euskadi Información, 25 de octubre de 1998, 10. [Disponible en línea: ]. MARTÍNEZ, A. 1999. Mentalidad de blanco. Gara, 12 de octubre de 1999. [Disponible en línea: ].

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